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What drum machine was used on "A broken frame" ?
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olap2

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:45 pm    Post subject: What drum machine was used on "A broken frame" ? Reply with quote

Anyone know what drum machine was used on "a broken frame"?

Also what synth was used for the bass line of "see you", nothing to fear" and "my secret garden"?

THanks,
O2
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Siolator

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the drum sounds from that Album were synthesised from an ARP 2600.. Daniel Miller's famous bass drum patch was used extensively. The drum parts were sequenced on a Roland MC4 and laid down to tape.Mute later aquired a Synclavier which was used after ABF for drum sounds

Unsure exactly what synth was used on See You, but sounds to my ears like a Roland SH1, which the band used quite a lot at that time.
I have an old magazine interview with them somewhere... I'll dig it out and find out some more info for you.

Hope this is of help
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olap2

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Siolator,

Many thanks for the info!! I would very much appreciate if you can find that magazine and shed some more like.

I used to think that the snares of "a broken frame" came from some Simmons drum computer as they sound (to me ) very different from the drums on speak and spell. so all the snares and kicks came form the arp 2600?

I hope the mag will have also some more info on the bass issue. To me the bass sounds on a broken frame are the ultimate synth analog bass (maybe because it was my first depeche mode album....) Do you have any idea what bass parts came from the moog source feltch was playing at that time on their live show?

Again many thanks for you time and answer Never let me down again
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Siolator

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember that at the time they strayed away from many of the more 'common' drum machines of the time (Linn, 808, simmons etc) to keep their sound more individual as every other act was using them.
The ARP 2600 is a mighty piece of kit and can synthesise an enormous variety of sounds as well as being easily interfaced to it's accompanying step sequencer or to the MC4 they were using as well at the time. Couple this with alot of patience (necessary with the equipment then) and drum tracks could be built up on tape.
the Simmons (SDS5) Drum Synthesiser was more of a drum head for the pads until the SDS6 sequencer came along in '83.
I think they experimented with the MCS Percussion computer(as seen in the Eurythmics Sweet Dreams video) for a while, but these were notoriously unreliable and didn't stay in the kit list long.

As far as the bass sounds go, you can hear the recognisable sound of the Moog's filter on the Leave in Silence bassline.. It has a slightly sweeter resonant curve to it and so is noticably different to the Roland sequenced line on See You. later on in the song(after mid Cool I think the line is augmented by a second line which could well be the Source as the bass more 'twangy'
Remember, in the live shows at the time, all the sequenced parts came off a Teac 3340 4 track tape machine which used to sit behind the band like a drummer so Fletch would be playing augmentation parts on the Source

BTW
If you're interested, I have a box full of old Music Techie mags I'm about to put on Ebay.. all sorts from E&MM, Music Technology and Sound On Sound dating back as far as '83. Lots of interesting info and original reviews on "new" kit like the PPG, Syclavier and Emulators.

Where are you based Olap?
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olap2

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Siolator

Again many many thanks for a superb reply!!!

I am based in Israel, where are you?

I am mostly interested in what depeche, Yazoo, Daniel miller did back then (80-86). If you have something about it please let me know.

The reason I ask about the bass is that I always loved the bass sounds on broken frame and I saw on the video of 1982 that fletch is using the moog source, and it looks like he is really playing some parts, e.g. on "nothing to fear" ,so i just want to know how much of it is the noog and what are the others as i know he is not playing the main line on see you for example. Thank you for clearing this up.

I have one last question, if you agree. On the early shows 80-81, as far as I know, they did not have memory patches on their synths, so I guess they needed to change every button and slider on the syntha going from one song to the other, Any idea how they did it?
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Siolator

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Again Olap... I am based in London.. here's an idea of how we used to do things back in the dawn of time

Yes indeed... back in the glory days, memories were only present on a handful of synths.. The Moog Source being one of them, The infamous PPG Wave and also the Jupiter 8 which was used by them from about '82 when Alan joined them for gigs.
the other synths they were using in the early days were not so blessed, and so you would use patch sheets, which were very simple paper layouts of all the controls on the particular synth in question and you would write the value of each control on its paper layout equivilant.. sounds primitive doesn't it, but it worked..
other innovative variants of this technique was to use a Polaroid camera to take a 'snapshot' of the synth's front panel. But you still had to recreate manually... if you listen to some of the very early (Speak and Spell) bootlegs, you can hear them testing the patch with a couple of notes at the beginning of each song.
Making electronic music back in the early 80's required enormous amounts of patience.. sounds would need to be crafted and lines laboriously typed into sequencers
The more complex sounds and lines were always commited to tape, as that was often the only way of preserving them and certainly the only way of reproducing live.. try wrestling with an ARP2600 with a dozen patch leads and a restless audience between songs and you'll understand why Wink

If you are interested in the early Speak and Spell gear, here is a list a few of the bits they used

Yamaha CS15
RSF Kobol
Syrinx
Roland SH1
Moog Prodigy
Moog Source
ARP2600
Roland System 100m
Roland MC4B sequencer

I have found one of my old DM interviews, but unfortunately it is from 86, so talks more about sampling and Black Celebration.. but I have it on PDF if you would like me to send it to you
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olap2

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well....I have even more respect for them...pretty amazing to do a live show with such difficulties... I wish I had those backing tapes from that time.....

I would be very happy if you can send me the pdf to: 3gl4@walla.com

Siolator,
These were the best ever answers I have ever got, and I have been searching for these for a very long time so many many thanks for your time and absolutely brilliant knowledgeable replys!!!!!
Never let me down again Never let me down again Never let me down again
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olap2

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just did a search to find what is the "MCS Percussion computer"
and found a link to interview with Daniel miller, and as you wrote Never let me down again , he is saying that most drum sounds were created on the ARP 2600, just thought you would be interested:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec98/articles/daniel.624.htm

Regarding the "MCS Percussion computer" I did not found anything except
"Movement Systems drum computer" which is said to appear on sweet dreams video and I can not find anything on the net for this either.
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Siolator

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again matey... I was doing some more research and found that they may well have had some additional help from KR55 preset drum machine running basic hi-hat and snare patterns which they synced up to the ARP sequencer which in turn triggered the ARP 2600 patches and recorded them to tape..

Here's the link to that info page

http://www.tuug.fi/~jaakko/dm/keyboards.html

BTW have just mailed you some goodies to read.. enjoy
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Siolator

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again matey... I was doing some more research and found that they may well have had some additional help from KR55 preset drum machine running basic hi-hat and snare patterns which they synced up to the ARP sequencer which in turn triggered the ARP 2600 patches and recorded them to tape..

Here's the link to that info page

enjoy DM Keyboards

BTW have just mailed you some goodies to read..
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olap2

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Sio,

WOW!! Thats is a DM knowledge heaven!!!! and thanks for all the goodies they were a real treat!!

Cheers,
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Dave

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link.

Very interesting to read it.
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roniflores

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

very informative! and interesting too!
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Anfieldmode




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great read that
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Shunt




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

this are great infos about gear in that time. Thank You!

Maybe u have answer to a question that follows me for a long time.

1. Who has written the insane Leave in Silence Brass Solo, especially the end.
Alan said, he has nothing to do with A broken frame, so maybe it was
Daniel Miller, who was something like a 4th member at that time?

2. What was the synth for the insane Leave in Silence Brass Solo? Was it the
Jupiter 8? I am lucky to have a JP8 here, and now I am more unsure, if it
was the Jupiter. Maybe yes..

Christian
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